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A personal view of life in the Town of Books
Eigon
Save the River Wye
The Kingdom of Hay
Long Live Hay-on-Wye!
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Blog Archive
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2011
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October
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- More Letters and Emails
- And on a Lighter Note....
- Emails and Letters
- The Word on the Street
- Hay In Danger
- Important Meeting
- Doing Too Much!
- Changing shops over the years
- Finding Bargains
- More interesting people
- We're only a Little Place!
- Goodbye Tony
- Green Happenings
- All Change!
- Celebrity Chef!
- Interesting Mushrooms
- Interesting Customers
- Cheese Market News
- What's Happening to Local Schools?
- A load of Rubbish!
- Swan Sadness
- Ignorance is Bliss?
- More Bargains
- Changes around Town
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About Me
- Eigon
- Hay is a fascinating town - but there's more to it than bookshops! I like to take a look behind the scenes, at what the locals are doing. I also maintain the Fairtrade Hay blog, and Morwenna's Tower, a blog about my writing and other interests.
23 comments:
May I thank 'Life in Hay' for keeping those of us who didn't go to the meeting updated.
The vast majority of the inhabitants of Hay (I would guess - 95%) shop in supermarkets both locally and in Hereford, Brecon and Abergavenny. As do a similar proportion of the anti-supermarket brigade - which makes them hypocrites. Don't do as I do, do as I say.
The existing School site in Hay is simply not big enough to accommodate a superstore or even a supermarket the size of those in Hereford, Brecon or Abergavenny. So calm down, get off your high-horses and at least consider the facts and the benefits.
The supermarket would benefit any local resident who can walk or who has a mobility scooter and save them a fortune in fuel costs. A supermarket would provide many jobs including some for our youth and others which would provide a second household income in these difficult economic times. A supermarket would attract customers from outside Hay some of whom would make visits to other shops in Hay thus boosting their trade. Similarly Hay residents currently travelling to Hereford, Brecon and Abergavenny to shop might stay in Hay.
The new Youth and Community Hall would greatly enhance the social and cultural aspects of Hay life and as the name implies give Hay a new facility for its youth who are much neglected at the present time. The Hall would act as an umbrella for all sorts of local organizations. By providing space owned by a charity the Hall would safeguard the future of many local organizations.
A new and larger primary School is desperately needed and only a tiny minority seem to be against. But it will not happen unless the old site can be developed - Hay is in something like twentieth place on the County Council's list for replacement and the Council can only tackle one or two a year. The present School has already existed for twice its designed lifespan and its age is showing.
The new Care Home and extended Medical Centre would provide GP beds and extra medical services right here in Hay rather than elsewhere which would be marvellous for anyone who needs such help - and there are more of us as time goes on!
A B&B owner in Hay claims that a supermarket would stop some of his guests coming to Hay. Has anyone ever heard of a tourist deliberately choosing not to visit a destination because it has a supermarket? Pull the other one - the one with the bells.
Just to answer the hypocrite charge above - I get all my meat from either Tom Bounds or Chris Gibbons, and all my veg from Phil the Fruit or Stuart the Greengrocer. Bread from the local bakers. Other staples from Londis, Spar or the Wholefood shop. It is quite rare now that I trundle the dog down to the Co-op, and I haven't been to Brecon or Hereford for several months.
Yes, a new supermarket would provide jobs - but it would also cause other jobs to be lost. I've seen this in other towns. There are even studies of the effects of a new supermarket on towns, and in every case more jobs are lost than are created, and the jobs that are created tend to be lower paid than the ones that are lost.
I've been in favour of a new Community Centre for over ten years, and I am in favour of a new school - but I do not agree that this is the way to achieve those ends. The way the plan is being forced upon us seems very undemocratic, as well.
And a new care home here would be another nail in the coffin of Bronllys Hospital.
Might I add that a new supermarket would require a large area for parking which would probably need to be separate from any other developement. Is there enough room for this?
Secondly, with more on-line shopping taking place, there has to be an arguement that those who wish to shop at supermarkets other than the Co-op (in Hay) can already do so. For example Waitrose deliver to the Hay area from Abergavenny and there is no charge as long as the order is over £50.
"Has anyone ever heard of a tourist deliberately choosing not to visit a destination because it has a supermarket?"
Yes, Motormouth. We have for years been told by our customers that they like Hay because it's so much unlike so many other towns.
The drive to uniformity - which is always in the interest of large corporations - will affect us the same way it's affected just about everywhere else.
Your prediction that nothing will happen doesn't alter my opinion that a town full of hypocrites without a supermarket looks better than a town full of hypocrites with one.
P.H.
Thank you Eigon for being one of the 5% who do not shop in supermarkets (with the exception of Spar and less frequently the Co-op) but instead support local independent shopkeepers. They need your business.
Independent Hay has since the early 1960s thrived with over 100 shops serving a local population of 1600 adults but none of those shops can prosper on an average of 16 adults. No way. They survive because Hay is an ancient Market Town and tourism catchment area blessed as it is by its location. To survive all businesses in Hay whether retail or non-retail must trade with the outside world both nationally and internationally. Any change in the local environment has a limited impact. Any macro-economic change such as the present-day recession can have a very marked and harmful effect.
I think a new supermarket and Youth & Community Hall would actually attract people from outside of Hay to visit us and tempt more locals to shop locally and/or use the facilities of the Hall. I also think that a new primary School, new Youth & Community Hall and new Nursing Home would together vastly benefit the welfare of local residents of all ages.
BUT we cannot have the latter without the former because neither local Authorities nor national Government (Welsh or Westminster) have the money. The proposed use of the present School site would provide that missing ingredient.
Opportunity knocks!
It will take more than a mere supermarket to stop the long-proven entrepreneurial expertise of our local business people winning the day and continuing to prosper.
Gosh, Motormouth, don't speak on my behalf and don't call me a hypocrite. You don't even know me. I think your 95% is a very wild guess and far, far from accurate.
I haven't been in a supermarket for over three years. Like Lesley I shop in town in the local shops – fruit and vegetables either from Phil the Fruit or Stuart Pritchard. Meat from Tom Bound, bread from Londis or Alex Gooch. I shop every Thursday at the Hay market where I buy fresh fish, cheeses, butter, yoghurt and cereals and I get my eggs all the way from Craswall. And you know what? – the majority of this food is local, no vegetables from Peru or Kenya.
You should try shopping locally, Motormouth You'll find you save a fortune on petrol and wear and tear on your car. Not only that, you'll be supporting your local Hay tradespeople.
I am aware that both before and during the current debate it is being said that I will benefit financially from development plans relating to the existing school site and the sports field and that our current County Councillor (to whom I am now related through marriage) is helping me to line my pockets.
There is not a shred of truth in any such accusations. Indeed just the reverse - I have over the years donated tens of thousands of pounds to the charity coffers of the Hay & District Sports and Community Association and Gareth has religiously declared his interest at every possible opportunity.
Supposing the Co-op decided to relocate to the existing School site in Hay - where would that leave the anti-Supermarket brigade? Without a paddle?
Motormouth.
I think it would leave the 'brigade' campaigning against a supermarket on the school site.
P.H.
I find it hard to understand in this time of world economic gloom that such emotions can be flying in both directions. I always thought in times of economic hardship one cut ones cloth according to ones means.
Does Hay require another food outlet ?,with adequate Co-op and home delivery available from all the big players. If we have to do without a "New school" for a couple of years , well in our private lives if we don't have enough cash we don't get a new car or tv or do without a holiday. And what happened to rates and taxes paying for council services. Many years ago Powys gave grants or paid tuition fees for all their youth, who wanted to, to go to university. When they stopped doing this I never noticed a drop in my rates. If you want new schools, good hospitals you pay your taxes, something no one seems too keen on these days. you don't pimp yourself out to the highest paying supermarket and sell local stores down the river. As a hypocrite that shops in Tescos in Hereford I can assure motormouth, especially with limited time parking that the other traders in Hereford don't benefit from my Tesco trips, unless I specifically need something and know where to go and I also happily pay £3 for a home delivery saving me 2 hrs and petrol money !
Dear Mr Morelli,
I've never met you or your stepson and I'm sure from what you say that you are an honourable man. I'm delighted to know that you have donated so much over the years to charity.
I see that the Hay & District Sports and Community Association is a limited company with you as the chairman and two of our Hay councillors as directors, one of whom is our own mayor.
Perhaps you would like to tell us where the money from the sale of this land would go to.
I do not normally respond to anonymous communications but I will make an exception to the latest posting since it is addressed to me personally. The Hay & District Sports and Community Association is indeed a limited company but it is limited by guarantee not by shares and is a registered charity rather than a commercial organisation.
The proceeds of any sale of land owned by the Association must go in full to the Association and can thereafter only be used by the Association for the furtherance of its charitable objectives.
The Association's charitable objectives do not include either education or nursing/care/medical services and therefore the Association can only sell land for either a new school or a nursing/care home or for any other use outwith its charitable objectives if it receives "best value" (viz full market value for the use to which the land is to be put if sold) in accordance with Section 36 of the Charities Acts.
Even if the Association was liquidated at any point in time then its assets in strict accordance with the Charities Acts could not be distributed but only gifted to another similar organisation with similar objects.
Any monies received by the Association for sale of land for a new school and a nursing/care home would be used towards a new Youth and Community Hall and replacement sports pitches both of which are within its charitable objectives.
I hope this answers the question which Anonymous posted yesterday.
Thank you for your concise answers to my question, Mr Morelli.
One final question, Mr Morelli. Can you tell me what the Association's charitable objectives are please? Thank you.
It would help if Anonymous would declare theirselves. As I said before I do not normally respond to anonymous communications of any sort but I will again make an exception because the latest question asked by Anonymous is on the public record and there is no reason therefore for any failure on my part to respond.
The Company's Objects since 17 June 2001 have been and remain as follows:-
To provide or assist in the provision of facilities for recreation or other leisure time activities for the benefit of the inhabitants of Hay-on-Wye and surrounding district in the interests of social welfare with the object of improving the conditions of life of the said inhabitants.
Thank you for answering all my questions. Mr Morelli.
I suppose shopping in a supermarket could be classified by some as a leisure time activity.
Thank you to Iorwerth Williams for having come into the open! I am sure that to define shopping in a supermarket as a leisure activity is a joke but it does give rise to an important point whether it is intended to be funny or serious.
The Hay & District Sports and Community Association is in no way involved with either the developers or the County Council in respect of the present school site or its future use. That is a matter for them and them alone.
It is only "if" and "when" (both big words!) the developers and the County Council reach agreement that the Association would become involved with the "benefits" that would arise from that agreement - namely a new Youth & Community Hall, a new Primary School, a new Care/Nursing home, improved and expanded local medical facilities and better sports facilities.
The "benefits" as I have called them would positively affect every citizen of whatever age currently living in Hay and district and those yet to be born.
If there is no agreement between the developers and the County Council then none of the benefits I list above would materialise.
It is that simple ..... and that stark.
Mr Morelli, you as well as I know that there is no such thing as a free lunch – or a free anything for that matter. What Powys CC don't seem to get in to their heads is that the majority of the people of Hay DO want a new school for the town but they DON'T want – or need – another supermarket. If you want to shop in Tescos you can do it online and a nice chap in a van will deliver it to your door the following day.
Powys CC talk of all the job opportunities. There won't be any as many people in Hay will lose their jobs when all the individual retail outlets are forced to close. Want a job as a shelf-stacker Mr Morelli? No, I didn't think you did.
This is not a rant at you or your Sports & Community Association but you need to be aware of the direct results of your actions in the grand scheme of things and that in your position you DO have a say and can effect a change that we all are happy with.
It would seem that there's an awful lot of 'passing the buck' going on right now. Powys CC are saying that it's not up to them but to the BBNP Planning Office. That's tosh because, like you, their ill-thought and inconsiderate actions directly affect us all long before this gets to the planning applications.
Thank you again Iorweth Williams for the beginnings of a reasoned debate.
Nobody is talking about a free lunch but rather a swop - the existing school site for a whole range of beneficial developments which together benefit every citizen irrespective of age.
Mr Williams argues that there would be a major downside in terms of loss of jobs from the closure of all the individual retail outlets which would be forced to close if a supermarket was built on the existing school site.
Those individual retail units are many and varied despite the existence of an out of town or more accurately an edge of town supermarket (the Co-op). How many jobs were lost when the Co-op and its predecessor Lo-Cost first set up in business? There were the same anti supermarket doom and gloom protests but the proof of the pudding is in the eating and I repeat what has been the actuality? Hay has prospered. Employment has grown.
If a new supermarket is ever built on the existing school site then the existing Co-op has a problem and if I was Chief Executive of the Co-op then I would do everything possible to engineer a move of my existing business to the existing school site. By its very nature Co-op customers share in the Co-op's profits and have a vote. Those customers/members should act to encourage such a move if and when any development of the existing school site actually proceeds.
Anti supermarket campaigners have long protested on the basis that new supermarkets decimate town centres. They should read a Study by the University of Southampton entitled "Revisiting the Impact of Large Food Stores on Market Towns and District Centres" published in December 2010. This evidenced Study (conducted both before and after supermarkets were built in the centre or on the edge of Market Towns) confirmed that such supermarkets encourage significantly fewer local residents to leave the town for their main food shopping; that they are not used just for "one-stop" shopping but their shoppers link their supermarket trips with visits to other local shops thus increasing town centre footfall; that consumers were highly positive about the impact of the new supermarket on themselves and their families, on other local residents and on the vitality and viability of the town centre and finally that town centre traders took a generally positive or neutral view on the impact on their own businesses. Supermarkets in Town are not the threat the protesters claim they are.
Hay is currently, (I repeat currently, here and now) under enormous threat from the present recession. On the one hand we are told that small businesses create jobs. In reality small businesses are being refused finance and are increasingly fragile as their ability to self-fund deteriorates as sales fall and cash flow becomes highly negative. It is tough out there and we will see closures of local businesses. The question is whether or not Hay's retail vitality can survive with imaginative new businesses created to replace those that are lost. This has nothing to do with a supermarket.
A new supermarket in Hay is at least 3 years distant from now. Those 3 years are predicted to be the worst 3 years of the global recession which started 3 years ago. Hay has survived the first 3 years but the strain is showing and the next 3 years (before any new supermarket can be built and opened) are critical. Everyone in Hay needs some good news - a new school, a new youth & community hall, a new care/nursing home, a new expanded medical centre and facilities and better sports facilities! Now is the time to be positive not negative.
‘Revisiting the Impact of Large Foodstores on Market Towns and District Centres’, produced by Southampton University and quoted by Mr Morelli was commissioned and funded by Tesco.
But it IS a swap, Leon Morelli. Here have a free school. Won't cost PCC a penny. Oh, and in return you'll give us the right to build an unwanted supermarket in the centre of you town, we'll decimate your town centre, kill off all the local shops and sell you vegetables that come from Kenya and Peru.
Come on Leon Morelli, get real. Everywhere is under enormous threat from the recession, not just Hay. It's at times like this that you, of all people, should be standing by your fellow traders and shopkeepers and making sure that the Hay that we know and love keeps its individuality and doesn't become like every other small town that has been raped by Tesco or Sainsbury's. You should be ashamed of yourself for backing this scheme.
Ah yes, the Study by the University of Southampton entitled "Revisiting the Impact of Large Food Stores on Market Towns and District Centres" published in December 2010 and commissioned by none other than . . . Tescos!
In the words of Mandy Rice Davies, "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"
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