Monday 30 January 2012

The Biggest Development Since the Castle Was Built

... was one comment at the meeting at Hay School this evening, which gives some idea of the scale of what is being proposed for Hay.
It was the re-run of last week's meeting, which was split into two meeting - for all the people who couldn't get in the first time, and again it was split into two meetings. This time, everyone had a seat in the school hall, and there were fewer initial speakers, which meant that people could go into more detail.
So, again, this is going to be a long post.

Tim Organ was able to add to what he said last week that he and his team had been in touch with the Highways Department of the County Council - and they have said they would assist Plan B with creating routes for children to be able to walk or cycle to school. This would have a knock on effect of benefiting everyone who wants to walk or cycle around Hay.
He mentioned Bulletin 99, a government document laying out the criteria for school facilities, which said that 8% of the floorspace should be given over to whatever the teachers think is important locally for the school - which makes it important for them to communicate with the architects, something that has not happened with the developers in this case.
He also mentioned something called REAM, which has to do with sustainability and the standards of building of new schools - something that the present government are thinking of getting rid of, which means that future school buildings would not have to be built to the present requirements. Do we really want another sub-standard school, and look forward to having the same discussions about replacing it in 30 years time? Tim Organ was talking about a school which would still be viable in 100 years.
He talked, too, about the Castle, and the plans for development there which would include arts and educational facilities. Far better to have the school in its present position so it is easy for the children to cross the road to access those facilities when they become available.
The Highways Dept have also said that, considering the increased volume of traffic which would need to use Forest Road, should the school, care home and community centre be built there, they would need to put traffic lights in at the Forest Road/Brecon Road junction.

The question and answer session was much concerned with the way the money is being worked out, and who owns what.
It seems that the developer doesn't actually have any funding for the community centre they have promised, and the care home would be a private scheme, funded as a PFI like the present doctors' surgery (and with the same owners).
So, would the school building be a PFI? The only word from the County Council is that they "don't believe" it would be.

Tim Organ described a project he'd been involved in on the edge of Bristol, which started with a passionate physiotherapist and £100 in the bank, and grew into a horse riding therapy centre which was also used by police horses, and a project for the blind, and was opened by Princess Anne! All the community had come together to do this, he said, so if we really want something, we can make it happen.
Plan B are already talking to the Welsh Government about direct funding for a school building.

Someone brought up the subject of the money that had already been raised for a new community centre, dating back at least 10 years, if not more. That money is presumably sitting in a bank somewhere - but it seems to be under the care of the Sports Association, as far as anyone knows. Also on the subject of raising money to go towards the new development - how much would the sale of the present community centre raise? It was believed that it would bring in about £350,000. The money from sale of the other schools in the area, which the County Council means to close, would not be put towards a new school in Hay, even though that is where the children from those schools would be re-located to, but would go into a general County Council pot.
So there's a problem here - nobody can get the figures to add up to cover all the building that has been promised.

Another concern is that some people have gone into the history of Gaufron in its various forms over the years. They were involved in the building of Clifford School and Ysgol Y Bannau and other local projects - and in each case, they went bust half way through the building work.

It seems that it was Gaufron, together with the Sports Association, that approached the County Council with the deal - with the result that the County Council then did not apply to the Welsh Assembly for the funding to replace Hay School, but depended on the Gaufron scheme going ahead. They seem to have no alternative plans if anything goes wrong - and it is a high risk plan, with several different elements. If one of those elements fails, then the whole plan fails. The County Council have said this themselves, at the same time as they said: "There is no Plan B."
So, if it did fail, the smaller schools would close and the children would be sent to the present Hay School - which has room for 170 children but would be expected to cope with 240, and the headmaster would be on the phone to the County Council asking for more portacabins! The County Council couldn't say that they didn't forsee this problem, because they are the ones closing the other schools, and putting their faith in this high risk scheme.

As a side issue, one lady said that a company (McCartney's?) had approached the County Council with an offer to buy one third of the present school site to build retirement flats on it - they offered one million pounds, but the County Council have not responded to them.

On the matter of engaging with the public, the County Council have been less than forthcoming. So far there have been two press releases, one meeting with the Chamber of Commerce, and one meeting with the Town Council which the town councillors were told to keep secret! This was followed, of course, by the stakeholders' meeting just before Christmas, where only a few groups were allowed to take part (including Plan B and the Chamber of Commerce).

Someone asked about the Sports Association and any history there might be between them and Gaufron. It seems that the dealings go back twenty years. The Sports Association has changed its name several times, and became a registered charity in 2001. That was when the last lot of plans were doing the rounds for a development on Forest Road including the school and community centre. At that time, many people gave money to the fund for the new community centre. In fact, the sports grounds were originally purchased with money from public subscriptions and from the various sports clubs. Land was then sold for the doctors' surgery (to Gaufron Healthcare) and later for the new houses that have been built to one side of the doctors'.
It was pointed out that, although the Sports Association was consulted and was involved in the plans, the actual sports clubs that used the facilities were not involved or consulted - and they really ought to be, since the development plans would involve the loss of a football pitch.

On the community aspect of the whole thing, one lady pointed out that, at Chris Gibbons' funeral recently, the church was packed - and that wouldn't happen for any supermarket employee.
And someone else asked why everything was being moved out of the centre of town up Forest Road anyway.

Coming shortly will be questionnaires to all the residents of Hay and an area about 4 miles around Hay. Oxfam and the Red Cross shop will have copies, and will serve as collection points.

As we came out, more people were coming in for the second meeting of the evening.

18 comments:

Gypsey Castle numpty said...

your report on last week was much better, tonights meeting sounds like a lot of hot air, ramblings and guff!! I don't know where to start, £1 millin for a third of the school site would I think have had a hand bitten off!! especially as another commented on the march larger community centre site only being worth £350k - you'd think McCartneys would know land values better than most - and really are more retireent flats what Hay needs?
No proposals are on the table, powys county council aren't saying anuything - yet somehow the highways department have analysed traffic flows and will have to put lights in???
The trouble with blogs is, half truths, hear says and anecdoest can be reported as gospel truth.

Anonymous said...

I think some serious questions need to be asked about the motives of the directors of the Sports Assoc especially when the fact that most are town councillors is taken into consideration!

Anonymous said...

of all suggestions for a development the only one I haven't heard is for using the site as a prison.
There's a terrible shortage of prison spaces at the moment and it'll make it very convenient for visiting when the local youths get sent down for their drug and ghb convictions.
oops forgot it's in Dyfed Powys and the police here have a very light touch policy, probably have to murder half the town before you get 6 months !

compman said...

Of course, who should really have been at both meetings? The chairman of The Sports Association…..Chicken??

Eigon said...

To Gypsey Castle Numpty: I reported on what I heard at the meeting, and those were the figures that were given. Of course, the speakers went into more detail than I could get down - I don't do shorthand, and my handwriting isn't quite fast enough!

Noel Ellimor said...

The Hay & District Sports & Community association has got to be the biggest misnomer in the whole of Wales. It's got bugger all to do with sports and even less to do with the community of Hay. It's main aim is to make money at the expense of the people of Hay and of the town of Hay.

To find that this whole project originated with the above company in cahoots with Gaufron Developments beggars belief. I'm amazed Leon Morelli dare show his face in Hay - or any of his cohorts for that matter.

If you're reading this Leon Morelli, and I suspect you are, shame on you.

Anonymous said...

Eigon, I just want to say a huge thank you for taking the time to write this blog. Especially your posts about the School site. It keeps people updated with past meetings, etc. Thank you.

Lisa Marie

Anonymous said...

Lesley is trying to give a fair account of what happened at the meeting for all to read, and I think she should be applauded for that.

Eigon said...

Thank you, Lisa Marie and Anonymous, for those kind words.
I'd far rather be blogging about cheerful, inconsequential things - but this is important, and blogging about it is the best contribution I can make.

Anonymous said...

It would be interesting to know where the funding came from to complete Clifford School and Ysgol Y Bannau when Gaufron went bust on these occasions. Also to know what would happen if the development went ahead and Gaufron went to the wall again, would Powys have to pick up the tab? - in which case why take the risk - just cut out all these profiteers and their dubious deals and apply for funding from the WAG and get the school funded and built in the appropriate manner.

gypsy castle numpty said...

I wasn't trying to bemoan the blog, simply some of the stuff ilethat was said and reported is incredulous. Apologies,
I'm no fan of Mr morelli, but some of the stuff that can be posted is very poor. He has owned businesses in Hay for years including Hays biggest employer, and has done much to market and raise the towns profile and was an early supporter getting the festival off the ground. The sports assosication I do have some issues with but you can't deny that land has been bought, new pitches brought into operation. So there may be questions to answer, but lets have some perspective too.

Anonymous said...

I have to agree . This is all supposition, theory etc. tim organ doesn't talk for anyone officially - its easy to dream ion and on and on but we have to live in a real world.

People like me - I've got two kids and live in gypsy castle -want a school and a supermarket .wheres my viewpoint ? Where's my voice to be heard ?

And as for plan b. -what is it ? The facts there isn't one .tjis is all hot air and conspiracy theory of t.he worst kind .

The children of hay want a new school and you're not listening to them -just to he businesses and an architect waxing lyrically about what he would do -if he was the wizard of oz.

Gareth ratcliffes right when he said to me - ignore those idiots , theyll just go away .

I hope they will.

Anonymous said...

Come on this is insanity .as nutty as well buy a ticket for a pound and buy the castle.

Even ratty against you now.

Anonymous said...

..."People like me - I've got two kids and live in gypsy castle -want a school and a supermarket .wheres my viewpoint ? Where's my voice to be heard ?"

..."Gareth ratcliffes right when he said to me - ignore those idiots , theyll just go away "

You already have a school and a supermarket(The Co operative,just head out towards Clifford and you will find it on the left!

Would Ratty like to comment on your alleged statement I wonder?

Remember,it was the developer of the Care Home and the Sports Association who approached PCC with their proposals, which hinge on the Care Home being built on one of the new football pitches, so let's hope your two children don't want to take up playing football.The land on the Forest Road was CPO'd for all types of sporting facilities with money raised or donated by various sports clubs.So if this development goes ahead there will be one football pitch,one care home,one doctors surgery ,one
school and ten houses.......all built by the same developer!

Anonymous said...

. . . all built by the same developer. Who goes bust halfway through every project and the local authority have to pick up the tab.

Anonymous said...

Ratty contemplating not running in may - says he's had enough and as the telegraph has now discussed his family - he feels ed be better off running the chip shop.


Opportunity for a Plan b county councillor ?

Anonymous said...

with 3 smaller schools facing closure in Summer 2013 Hay desperatly needs a new school, the only thing stopping our children having a top class eduction, in a top class school is plan b! I really don't care that the deli might close or we might loose 1 of the 2 butcher or greengrocers, my concern right now is that my daughters school in facing closure in just over a year and she has no where to go....it's really quite simple! Hay school is in a extreamly poor state of repair and is massivly over subscribed. I have even been told my a teacher at the school that they find it very difficult to teach in those conditions!!!! Do we really want this for our children????

We need a new school and we need it now, whether we a get a supermarket thrown in to the deal, I really don't care - Tesco's delivers to my front door!!

How many of the plan B team have children in primary education????

The childrens eduction is the most important thing at the miomemnt and as PCC appear to be moving fast when it comes to closing schools, someone needs to move fast to build a new school!!

Susie K said...

I have a daughter in primary education and what Powys CC is doing with its "modernisation" programme is a national disgrace. The issue should have nothing to do with a retailer funding Hay school. We pay taxes and the education of our children is a state concern not one that is thrown to the highest supermarket bidder . Shame on you Powys Council.